Grace,

I accept your apology . . .
Thanks.

Darren, AM and Grace–I understand it is difficult to have conversations on this subject when there is disagreement. I would encourage you all to respond to an offense with kindness. As Jesus said we should imitate the father who was “kind to evil and ungrateful men.” Its easy to get riled up and return tit for tat. But there is not purpose in that. Any further comments of this nature going back and forth about who is more rude than whom, I will simply delete since that distracts from the more important conversation here. Thanks!

PS–AM I deleted your comment as it included an unnecessary jab toward Grace.

Focusing in on the stealing principle for a moment, would you agree that we could place idolatry, which is actually proscribed in both the first and second commandments, there: “You shall have no other gods before me” and “You shall not make for yourself an idol (graven image) …”?

Here is an interesting interpretation of the concept of idolatry: “Idolatry is the universal human tendency to value something or someone in a way that hinders the love and trust we owe to God. It is an act of theft from God whereby we use some part of creation in a way that steals from honor due to God.” I don’t know who to credit that to, by the way.

It is also interesting to note the parallels between the Exodus account of the Ten Commandments and what Paul wrote in Romans 1 about “ungodliness and unrighteousness of men” leading to idol worship in place of the “incorruptible God,” which in turn caused God to give them over “in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, so that their bodies would be dishonored among them.” He extrapolates that out to homosexual acts, as well, beginning that narrative with, “For they exchanged the truth of God for a lie.” So, I guess we bring lying into the picture, too. And if we are stealing from and lying to God, then we are, of course, cheating Him out of what is rightfully His.

I’m just saying. … It’s hard to ignore.

What specific kinds of harm come from idolatry, no matter the form it takes? Again, obviously, grave spiritual consequences are there. The physical ones will vary from case to case, perhaps. But I think it’s time for us to now ask ourselves, which consequences are we really to be more concerned with? The physical will not outlast the spiritual. We are but dust and here in bodily form for only a short while. What is at our core is who we are. The fruit can look pretty good on the outside but be rotting on the inside. And it will most assuredly die.

Many people out in the world today are liars, thieves and swindlers, but they do not appear to suffer in the physical realm. Some do, of course. We can imagine that they may be unhappy because they have placed themselves on a throne that is meant for God. They continue to look for the “things” that will bring them happiness, only to realize at the end of their lives that it is a pointless pursuit. If we interviewed them, how many would swear they were happy?

This does not equate one-for-one with the quest for happiness that we seek in all human relationships. Marriage is a sacred thing, too, even though we can also place it above God as an idol. Those Christians who are gay and in committed relationships and who keep God at the center of their lives — if they tell us this is true, we have to take it at face value — believe with all their hearts they are no different from other Christians. I know some who are still too caught up in the gay culture of idolatry (this is my view) to make me feel comfortable with their faithfulness to God. Others I am sure have their priorities more in order. Only they know whether or not they have true peace or joy. I can’t judge that.

I hope this makes sense.