This post is part of a synchroblog sponsored by New Direction. Over 50 bloggers are simultaneously posting articles on June 24th on the topic of bridging the gap between the church and the gay community. Participants hail from a variety of persuasions. Check out the list of other bloggers at Bridging the Gap.
I was annoyed. The local Good Times had featured a documentary-in-the-making about God, gays and the Bible. Two filmmakers, a lesbian couple, were on a mission to promote the reconciliation of Christianity and homosexuality. This is wrong, I muttered, How can anyone read the Bible and think it affirms homosexuality? Like many Christians, my first reaction to such news was judgment. Without even knowing these women, I made all kinds of assumptions about their motives. I automatically surmised that they were purposely mangling the truth. How dare they twist my sacred texts? Thus, it was a tad ironic when, several months later, I was interviewed for that very documentary, God and Gays: Bridging the Gap.
My history of being involved in lesbian relationships cultivated a deep compassion in me for the gay community at large, but I still had residual stereotypes about Christians who affirm homosexuality. These negative perceptions usually popped up involuntarily without a second thought. Yet, as I pondered the Good Times article, my irritation turned into curiosity. How do Christians reconcile homosexuality and Christianity? It was a question I couldn’t ignore. So, I set out to research the topic for a book project. After developing a lengthy survey with over 60 multiple choice questions on theological beliefs and sexual identity, I conducted taped interviews with gay affirming Christians. Some were referred to me by a local GLBT center, others by a local ex-gay ministry (participants who had left the program). Of course, on my list were Kim Clark and Luane Beck, the two filmmakers I had read about.
Kim and Luane agreed to let me interview them on one condition: that they be allowed to interview me in return. That’s how I ended up sitting in a Redwood glen with cameras rolling, grasping for words as I answered questions on the fly about faith and sexuality. During these months as the film was pieced together, I had several intriguing conversations with Kim and Luane, as well as other individuals I was interviewing. In the process, I discovered I was wrong. The gay affirming Christians I met were not on a malicious mission to deliberately distort truth and rebel against God. They were ordinary human beings—lovely human beings—who were trying to make sense of the world the best they knew how. My well-packaged answers began to fall flat.
Why didn’t God clearly spell out his will to these gay Christians in the same way he was directing me? The people I interviewed did not hate God. They were good people. Many had sincerely prayed, seeking answers from the Divine. While there were certainly things I could point to that revealed how we came to different conclusions on homosexuality, there was also an unsettling recognition that the mystery was deeper than I had imagined. During this time, I rented a film—Boys Don’t Cry—that ripped the lid off the emotions my research was beginning to stir. The movie is based on the true story of Teena Brandon, a same-sex attracted young woman who, uncomfortable in her female body, decided to live as a boy, changing her name to Brandon Teena. Teena was eventually raped and murdered at the tender age of 21 when her identity was discovered. After the movie, I tried to go about my chores, but instead found myself curled up in a ball weeping. My God, what about Brandon Teena?? Am I supposed to believe this precious human being is condemned by You in the midst of all her confusion and the violence inflicted upon her? What about all the people I am interviewing? What about Kim and Luane? The anguish I felt was unbearable. These were no longer anonymous voices whose views I could analyze in a cold, detached manner. They were real people I cared about. Since then, I’ve had many conversations with God, wrestling over the mysteries of how and why.
After God and Gays premiered, Luane and Kim created a conference to go with the film. These events included speakers and workshops designed to help people reconcile homosexuality with their faith. I participated in the first one. This experience stretched me. What was I doing co-facilitating a workshop at a pro-gay conference? I knew it was a stretch for Kim and Luane too. Even though we had formed an amicable relationship over the previous year, they knew I did not affirm homosexuality. It was an awkward dance, albeit educational. For example, I discovered just how many spiritually hungry people will show up for a gay-affirming conference on God. I’m not sure what I was expecting. Angry, defiant activists?
About a dozen people attended the workshop I co-facilitated on Recovering from Fundamentalism. We sat in a circle as I shared my story, and then I asked them to describe their spiritual journeys. Many of them had been hurt by the Church. I used the time to emphasize God’s love and grace toward us in the midst of working through challenging questions of faith and sexuality. No matter where we are at in our process, I said, the most important thing is to keep holding fast to Jesus. Afterward, a woman approached me to thank me for what I had shared. She particularly appreciated a chart I had passed out distinguishing biblical Christianity from legalistic Christianity. She said she planned to share it with her son who had abandoned his faith after a painful experience in a legalistic church.
Of course, building bridges does not mean everyone collaborates in perfect harmony and we all pretend there are no significant differences. That was particularly poignant when participating in the God and Gays conference. This was, after all, an event promoting the reconciliation of Christianity and homosexuality—something I could not do. Luane, Kim and I knew I would always be, to some extent, an “outsider.” That taught me something about bridging the gap; building bridges sometimes means respecting each other’s sacred space.
It is easy to gloss over deep issues to form a superficial bridge. It is much harder to be honest about how we really feel and yet still treat each other as human beings. There used to be a popular saying “Love is color blind.” It was a well-intended statement about valuing all races and ethnicities. The problem is how can we love people when we don’t see them? To truly love someone means I know that person. I see him or her in full color—including the differences. Sometimes this authentic love will draw us together for seasons of dialogue, and sometimes that love means moments when we step back and respect each other’s space.
A year or two after the film premiered, I had less contact with Kim and Luane. Our lives naturally went separate ways as other projects filled our time. I miss them, even though the disparate convictions we hold were and are painful at times. I saw it in Kim and Luane’s eyes, and I felt it in my gut. How can it not be painful? We are each championing a position the other believes is hurtful. We are striving to make a positive impact on people’s lives and yet disagree how to make that happen. But, despite our differences, I learned something from Kim and Luane. I learned that the answers are less black and white than I might wish them to be. I learned that even though there are differences, Kim and Luane have many of the same values and ideals as I do. We want the same thing—for people to experience well-being and connection to God. I am grateful for the time I had with them. Taking the risk to listen—really listen—made me all the richer. And I can only hope they heard me too.
What has been your experience with bridging the gap between the church and the gay community? Take some time to ponder this post and the other synchroblog articles. What themes do you notice? How are your ideas and experiences for bridge building similar or different? Come back and share reflections on what you are reading in the synchroblog.
32 Comments
June 24, 2009 at 7:54 am
Thanks Karen for this thoughtful post.
June 24, 2009 at 9:39 am
This is an incredible story. Thank you for sharing.
June 24, 2009 at 10:57 am
This is so well-written, and I find many parallels with my own experience with pro-gay theology. Thanks for your honesty!
June 24, 2009 at 11:11 am
Thanks Wendy, Jarred and Beth! I have read your blog posts too. Thanks for being part of this synchroblog!
June 24, 2009 at 11:35 am
I liked this comment: “building bridging sometimes means respecting each other’s sacred space.”
Thanks so much for contributing today.
June 24, 2009 at 2:18 pm
Thanks for contributing this story. My “Bridging the Gap” post was hard for me to write, because I always feel like I have more questions than answers, but I want to try to give reason for the hope that I have in spite of everything that’s happened to me. It’s something I and my close friends can’t even agree on, because while they love me, they truly believe that it’s wrong for me to love another woman, and it seems that we’ll always be at a standstill. I have to remember that I, too, thought it was evil for years, and that we’re all reading the same bible, and that God is bigger than any person’s belief or doubt. Change doesn’t come over night, but I believe that someday, I will be able to stand and say that I truly believe that God loves me, just as I am. So I keep going.
I’m reminded of a passage from the children’s story “The Velveteen Rabbit,” which I’ll quote here, if you don’t mind:
“Real isn’t how you are made,” said the Skin Horse. “It’s a thing that happens to you. When a child loves you for a long, long time, not just to play with, but REALLY loves you, then you become Real.” “Does it hurt?” asked the Rabbit.
“Sometimes,” said the Skin Horse, for he was always truthful. “When you are Real you don’t mind being hurt.”
“Does it happen all at once, like being wound up,” he asked, “or bit by bit?” “It doesn’t happen all at once,” said the Skin Horse. “You become. It takes a long time. That’s why it doesn’t often happen to people who break easily, or have sharp edges, or who have to be carefully kept. Generally, by the time you are Real, most of your hair has been loved off, and your eyes drop out and you get loose in the joints and very nappy. But these things don’t matter at all. Because once you are Real you can’t be ugly, except to people who don’t understand.”
June 24, 2009 at 7:44 pm
I love your thoughts about the saying “love is colour blind” as well as your line “building bridges sometimes means respecting each other’s sacred spaces”… those comments truly resonated with me as a Christian with more your view of things, as I work things out in my relationship with someone very dear to me who is in a committed gay relationship. I pray that we’re both learning to respect each other’s sacred spaces, while loving each other in full colour.
June 25, 2009 at 5:42 am
I really resonated with this post as I was reminded when I found out two of my good friends, who are christians and struggle with SSA as I do, ended up becoming a ‘couple’. To say I was ticked was an understatement. I felt it my duty to send them an email to let them know of my disapproval and that until they changed their ways I could not be around them. And I didn’t for 2 years until a chance phone call a mutual friend of ours received from one of them while I was with her changed all of that. I ended up talking to this friend who I felt had betrayed what we had all been striving for- celibacy- and as soon as I heard her voice my resolve melted and I realized how much I had missed her frienship. To make a long story short we ended up meeting for coffee and I have been in contact with both of them ever since. Although they know where I still stand on the issue, even though at times I feel wobbly and wonder what it would be like to have a partner, we share a deep love and respect for one another. I also know if I needed something or needed their help, and I hope they know the same goes if the situation was reversed, we are there for each other despite our differences. I found that it was easy to take my ‘dogged stance’ from afar but wasn’t so easy once a human voice was connected to the situation. I will never forget this lesson as it was simply how Jesus would have handled it- with much grace, compassion, and love- oh how much further that goes than being a pharisee.
June 25, 2009 at 8:44 am
for years I believed what my church taught with certainty – that homosexual relationships were sinful – then my son told me he was gay and I decided it was time for me to study scripture for myself – after spending a lot of time in study and prayer – taking into account original language and historical context – I came to the conclusion that there was not enough evidence to condemn monogamous, loving, homosexual relationships (I was very surprised at the lack of evidence to support what I had believed all those years) and that I would be acting unjustly to do so. I don’t share this to convince anyone that my conclusion is correct but to encourage everyone to make sure that you know why you believe what you do. I appreciate your sincere and loving efforts at bridging the gap and demonstrating that unity does not equal conformity. If you have a chance I would love to get your thoughts on my contribution http://gracerules.wordpress.com/2009/06/24/with-a-little-help-from-my-homosexual-friends/
June 25, 2009 at 9:17 am
Mark and Melanie–I know some would see it as a compromise to say we should respect someone’s sacred space, but that is the only way we can live in this world of diversity. We cannot barge in and harass everyone who thinks differently. Or, picket all the religions or ways of life that we may not agree with. We share this world–this space–until Jesus comes and He straightens us all out! (no pun intended)
Edwardnortonfan–its true, God loves everyone. “For God so loved the world . . .” That is one of the things I emphasized in the Recovering from Fundamentalism workshop–that God’s love has never been contingent on what we do or don’t do. If that had been the case, He never would have come to us. He would have been waiting for an eternity for us all to get our act together. The question about homosexuality–whether one believes it is sin or not–is never about whether God loves us or not. Sin is inconsequential to whether or not God loves us. So either way–sin or not–God loves us all. And it is in that knowledge of being loved that we can then trust Him enough to draw close and listen to how He is guiding us in our lives.
Amazing Grace–thanks for sharing your experience. I can understand how its a blow when those we have been working through this process with “change sides” so to speak. And it goes both ways, its hard for those on the gay affirming side to see people change their views to seeing homosexuality as not God’s design. I think that is because we all care about each other and want what is best for each other–but we just disagree on what that “best” is.
Gracerules–I so agree with you how important it is for people to actually study this issue. Most people never do study on a serious level. I had a very vested reason for seriously studying this issue–it meant whether or not I would give up the love of my life. I too looked at the original languages and actually have more gay-affirming theology books on my shelf than those that promote a traditional sexual ethic. I have written about some of my research here on this blog and if you are interested in it, you can find it under the sidebar category “Biblical/theological Studies.” Of course my studies are always on-going. I am more interested in arriving at Reality than to holding a position just to hold it.
June 25, 2009 at 5:56 pm
On the one hand I “get” the concept of bridging the gap, but on the other I’m a little confused and do have some concerns. I realize the big goal is to bring people to Christ. But for every big goal there are a lot of little things that need to be worked out along the way. This is where it gets really fuzzy.
Some of the questions I have are:
1) Is the intent of bridging the gap to bring practicing and openly gay affirming homosexuals under the same roof as the main congregation for regular ongoing worship and fellowship? Wouldn’t that chip away at doctrine and influence others?
2) Does bridging the gap involve “love bombing” homosexuals until we are finally convinced they do not intend to ever change their beliefs and lifestyle, and then tell them they are no longer welcome?
3) Should we refer them to another church that embraces what we consider to be sin? It’s unlikely Christ would compromise in that way.
4) Should we tell them that they are welcome as long as they keep quiet about their lifestyle and beliefs?
I am not suggesting that Christians should reject or not love homosexuals as people; I’m just looking some of the issues that arise in a Church setting. So far I haven’t really seen these things clearly defined.
June 25, 2009 at 9:39 pm
Thanks for writing this … it’s helped me a bit with what I’m working through myself.
I was thinking about another blog post … maybe to post about my experience on this Synchroblog. There are so many well written blogs out there and I learned something from every blog I’ve read through.
Just wondering if you’d mind me quoting you in my next blog post?
June 26, 2009 at 4:29 am
I just found Sheepcat’s comment so appropriate.
I think that sometimes we focus on the sexuality issues so much that we lose perspective. It helps to remember that this matter of how to engage with those with different beliefs is an age-old issue. And the answer has always been a balancing act, as Sheepcat suggested.
I think there may be a cultural issue at hand here, too, which Sheepcat hinted at.
Perhaps many from evangelical and maybe fundamentalist backgrounds were used to an ‘outright rejection’ of those who do not hold the same beliefs. (This includes Catholics, non-Christians, etc., and of course active homosexuals.)
The current re-assessment that’s happening at New Direction may be a reaction to this phenomenon.
Just to present another perspective… where I come from – Ethiopian Orthodox – we have had to live with, for example, Muslims, for centuries. We have clear boundaries. Of course we believe that we have the right beliefs and that they would be better off become Christians, but the final judgement is God’s.
But we live together. Weddings together, funerals together, etc. We don’t eat the same meat (by tradition – not belief), so we prepare different tables for each other. And we’re okay with that!
There are incidents that occur, but not nearly as many as you would think. And of course, we can be quite intolerant – you’ll hear priests rail against the recent evangelical competition – but there is a different quality to it!
Of course, our reaction to non-Christians and Christians leaving the flock or changing certain beliefs can be different. The latter can bring about emotions related to betrayal, and also doubt and confusion. Nevertheless, at a fundamental level, it’s the same.
The the fully believing Christian and Muslim can get along, can even be best friends, while not compromising their beliefs, surely orthodox Christians and liberal Christians (I’m putting Side A people in this box) can do the same!
They don’t need to condescend to each other by changing their beliefs. Rather, witnessing by remaining true is perhaps the best thing they can do for each other.
June 26, 2009 at 7:51 am
Sarah–yes you can quote my blog. I will be interested to read your thoughts on the synchroblog and everything you have read.
Saul–I agree we must be able to get along with those who hold different beliefs. I appreciate your Ethiopian Orthodox perspective. The Christians in the N.T. were eating meals with those who worshipped other gods/had different religious beliefs. Paul says, “Just don’t ask if the food was sacrificed to idols.”
Where I think some are still having difficulty and this has been coming up more lately in the comments on various posts here–and what Grace alludes too–is those who do not claim to have a different religion. Rather Christians–brothers and sisters–who are affirming something that other Christians see as grievous. How do we grapple with this issue within our own churches? Where does bridge building fit or not fit? This is something I am still working through. I hope to write a post on it at some point and generate discussion/thoughts about that aspect.
June 26, 2009 at 7:58 am
PS–Grace–I would venture to guess that there are many people in the church practicing all sorts of things. Gossips, insolent youth, couples engaging in premarital sex, those struggling with pornography addictions, etc etc. Does hiding those sins from others and putting on a happy face on Sunday make them more kosher than those who are simply being honest and open about how they are living their lives?
June 26, 2009 at 9:31 am
Karen,
I know a couple of people in my Church who are pro-abortion. But they don’t think they’re right with certainty. They don’t try to promote their views. They don’t demand that the Church change its teachings. There is an implicit partial acknowledgment that their stance is not fully informed in the Holy Spirit. In the end, they defer to the teachings of the Church. They have a degree of cognitive dissonance that they are content to regard as a Mystery. They wait for the Holy Spirit to one day bring them to the Truth.
If these folks decide one day that they have solved their Mystery and that the Church is wrong, then that’ll be a heresy, or a different religion.
But that’s okay. Let’s accept it for what it is. Let’s deal with the emotions of betrayal, acceptance and rejection, identity-related emotions, etc. Once that’s all done, what we have is different sets of beliefs.
June 26, 2009 at 12:48 pm
Thanks for allowing me to quote from your blog. It will be a while before I blog about my experience and what I’m learning here through this experience but when it comes I’ll let you know.
For right now I’m learning from GCN and this Synchroblog as well as through other sources I have outside of this Synchroblog initiative.
I see a lot of great stuff and I do like what I’m reading on these blogs. I wish I had more time to read more blogs and I’m sure others are saying the same. My contribution was a simple testimony but I didn’t say anything new or fancy or revelutionary
I’m hoping that with this next blog post of mine it will stir up some friendly dialogue with folks.
June 26, 2009 at 3:29 pm
Karen,
My questions were specifically about “bridging the gap” with those who believe homosexuality is not sin and might never change their lifestyle and views. It brings up important concerns that I have not yet seen addressed by movements such as New Direction.
Most Christians do have a general understanding of what sin is, and although they may have plenty of it in their life they don’t promote and affirm it at church as acceptable doctrine. (I certainly have sin in my life and don’t think other people’s run any deeper than my own.)
Homosexuality is in a very unique position, however, in that people actually identify themselves by the name of a sin. So it is very hard to overlook, as we could with other sins. What I’m hearing about “elevating the conversation” seems to lean in the direction of not addressing homosexuality up front. Which on one hand seems like a good idea, but on the other it raises flags.
How can bridging the gap be done without hurting homosexuals or the church as a whole? Could we be approaching the homosexual community haphazardly without a clear action plan? Can we look back 50 years from now and say that we did what was in the best interest of everyone involved?
At what point do we reject homosexuality and how?
Should we befriend homosexuals, invite them to church and then crush them by telling them they are no longer welcome when we realize they will not change their lifestyle or beliefs to line up with ours? And if we overlook or ignore homosexuality, allowing it to exist freely among church members, do we end up indoctrinating it as an acceptable alternative to male-female relationships?
I’m genuinely confused about what all of this really involves and where it is heading. It gives me the feeling of hopping on a runaway train. And I have any good answers or suggestions on how it should be handled.
So I’d like to see more clarity from movements such as New Direction on the questions I have addressed.
June 28, 2009 at 3:52 am
oops…I made a typo in my last comment. It should have read: “I don’t have any good answers or suggestions…” It was kinda bugging me, so had to correct it. (But it’s just as well, I kind of wanted to recant it anyway…I’m sure I could come up with some if I put my mind to it.)
June 30, 2009 at 4:35 pm
The thing too is that for conservatives the matter is often one of seeing people living in open rebellion towards God and saying that God approves of it.
There is some serious surreality to the situation.
So to them, the answer to the question of how to bridge the gap is often: “They need to realize that they are living in sin and repent.”
To them, the idea that homosexuality is blessed by God is like speaking about “holy lying” or “loving, committed adultery”.
So in that sense, I am not sure that the gap can ever be bridged, or even what the purpose of bridging the gap is to begin with.
In other words, what would we have agreed to do at the end of the day? Like one another?
(As Christians we should be doing that anyways.)
June 30, 2009 at 7:51 pm
Hi Karen I just completed my blog post although I’ve had some glitches with the links and still learning to navigate through the formating …
The links are there people just can’t simply click on them to get directed back to your blog but I commented with the link address… sorry that was the best that I could do
I wanted to do better.
July 1, 2009 at 8:29 am
Grace:
Is it a sin to be attracted to people of the same sex? Because that’s what being gay means.
And what is “the homosexual lifestyle”? Are my boyfriend and I engaging in “the homosexual lifestyle” when we go shopping for groceries together? How about when I give him a backrub after he’s had a hard day at work? How about when we cuddle on the couch while watching Hotel for Dogs together? How about when we go out for a romantic dinner at that nice Italian restaurant down the road? How about when we get together with friends to have a picnic in the park?
There’s a lot more to being gay and having a relationship than sticking Tab A in Slot B. It seems to me that some people tend to forget that fact.
July 1, 2009 at 1:17 pm
Is it a sin to be attracted to people of the same sex? Because that’s what being gay means.
——————————————-
No.
The church has a different definition for “gay” than the dictionary which leads to much confusion among already-confused straights.
As for “the gay lifestyle”, that is an extension of said confusion.
Usually.
There are Christians who understand the difference but just use the therms. “Gay lifestyle” to them would just mean forbidden sexual activity.
July 1, 2009 at 1:19 pm
That should be: “just use the terms anyway”
(And for many reasons including habit or simply so that their confused brethren could understand better etc.)
July 1, 2009 at 2:06 pm
The problem with sticking to such a specialized, jargonistic definition of a word with a much more common definition is that it people quickly conflate which way the word is being used in a given instance. For example, when Grace says that gay people identify with sin, for that to be true, then she has to be using the jargonistic definition of the word gay. The problem, however, is that the people who choose to identify with that word aren’t using the jargonistic definition. So the suggestion that we’re identifying with sin just doesn’t hold up.
The use of jargon is one of the biggest stumbling blocks in many conversations, really.
July 1, 2009 at 3:49 pm
To Trinidad Adventist Gay —
What would we have agreed to do at the end of the day? Like one another?
My question is …
Why not?
What does ‘bridging’ mean to you?
Is coming to believe that homosexual behavior is blessed by God the only way for a conservative Christian to bridge?
Or is building an authentic friendship with one another despite differences not an option?
I wonder because I have quite a few gay friends, two of my gay friends are in committed relationships. I’m friends with all four people. One of the two sets of couples are Gay Christian. There are disagreements that we have but we’re still building authentic relationships. So, yes we can by the end of the day still like one another. At least, I’ve been able to see this happen in quite a few my friendships even with my Post Gay testimony.
July 2, 2009 at 9:32 am
Jarred, I agree that jargon can complicate the conversation. Its so important to ask people to define their terms. I do find it troubling that sometimes the church/ex-gay community will engage in odd semantics around the word “gay” that makes things confusing. I think we should use standard English dictionaries and common understandings of terms as much as possible. To me, the word “gay” simply means someone who is attracted to the same sex–whether or not they happen to be currently involved in a relationship, in the same way calling someone “heterosexual” does not imply behavior in of itself.
Trinidad–I found Sarah’s questions for you on bridging to be interesting. I would be curious as to your thoughts on those as well. Its a good question–what do we mean by “bridging the gap.” For me, its about treating people with respect, engaging in conversation and friendship as opposed to isolating in our own religious compounds. I think we sometimes feel that if we are nice to people and engage with them as friends that that is expressing approval for all opinions and behavior of that person. And that somehow if we are reserved and emotionally distant from people they will feel our disapproval and perhaps our frown will cause them to reconsider (even though that is not an effective way that many of us would reconsider positions). It seems too that Christians do this more for those who are gay. I imagine many believers would say they have close relationships with friends who are having premarital sex or actively engaged in other behaviors that are ungodly. Gluttony is a serious problem in America that no one seems to bat an eye at–persist, unrepentant gluttony. Yet, no one seems to have difficulty hanging out and befriending those caught in that sin.
July 2, 2009 at 3:01 pm
Well, in Trinidad and Tobago the population is a wild mix of races and religions so it is almost impossible not to know someone of a different religious tradition altogether.
I have several friends who are Muslim, Hindu and any other denomination in between–not to mention religions that are less common in the United States like Rastafarianism.
I’m just saying this to say that it is impossible to cloister oneself into a “Christian ghetto” here where everyone looks like and thinks like you do.
But that is not a virtue on my part it’s just a fact of history.
So if bridging the gap is all about becoming friends with people who you don’t agree with then I am all about that! I think Christians should befriend people who are different to themselves.
As a practical matter, I am not sure how to bring this concept to Trinidad and Tobago. Universally here (across all religious traditions) homosexuality is looked down upon. So besides not agreeing with the theology that gay relationships are blessed you have an equally strong social/cultural repulsion to the idea of homosexuality that Christians need to overcome in order just to befriend someone who was gay.
People see it as a matter of gays being extremely perverted people; and so to them, being friends with a homosexual is maybe 50% like asking them to be friends with two adults in an incestuous relationship. (Just trying to illustrate that there is some measure of not wanting to befriend someone who to them is willfully revolting. Remember they think being gay is a choice!)
Having said that, people here can be surprisingly progressive and tolerant. Many people are of the opinion that “they can do their thing and I will do mine” which is something we can work with (along with the biblical mandate to love one another).
I hope this is not too confusing.
July 2, 2009 at 3:51 pm
The question is, can we convince Christians that treating all people equally in this regard is important enough?
July 2, 2009 at 7:50 pm
Jarred and Karen,
I would like to point out that in the English language most words do have variations in meaning, or multiple meanings.
Even the use of standard dictionary terms, as you suggest Karen, leaves us in the position of navigating the meanings of simple words.
If you look up the word “gay”, homosexual is NOT at the top of the list. And if you look up the words “homosexual” and “homosexuality” there are variations and differences in meaning. This does not constitute “jargon”, which has a strong emphasis on meaningless, gibberish talk.
Jarred you suggested that I used the word “gay” in relation to lifestyle when in fact I used the word “homosexuality”—the only one of these three terms that includes the sexual “act” (behavior) in it’s meaning. And I was, in fact, specifically referring to the act and not implying anything else.
The distinction between these words can easily be found in the dictionary. I was using simple, everyday language that I would not expect people who have been engaged in the discussion on homosexuality to have any difficulties understanding.
I hope this has added some clarity about those terms for you.
July 4, 2009 at 2:07 pm
Karen,
I am absolutely AMAZED by this post of yours! Without a doubt, IMHO, it is one of your best. I could state that I almost cannot believe that you wrote it…
What I do see is that your being broken about the story of Brandon Teena is tantamount to understanding sexuality issues. I saw this coming a few years ago — a continuum — not just simply of gay – bisexual – straight sexuality but GENDER as well.
This is why God took me on my ex-gay journey: to show me the cloaked reality of my intersexism — which doctors, parents, society has tried to hide. Yes, even to *this* day.
Karen, please consider this: I truly believe that your weeping in genuine sorrow over Brandon Teena is the beginning of God showing this to you, too. I do not believe for one second that your reaction was an “accident”.
Mark my words: *someone * will come forth who is intersexual, and it will turn attitudes, perceptions, and most importantly hearts around. I am on the verge of destitution myself; I do not have hundreds, maybe even thousands of dollars for doctors’ visits. Nor do I have living family members; they lived in the “closet” about this, and in deep, unending pain. Think about it: one of the very worst things to happen to a woman is to give birth to a deformed child.
Please, don’t criticize me for being politically incorrect for saying this about disabilities; any mother’s heart is grieved when this happens. Why do you think fingers and toes are counted, for example?
But just as God has used Andrew Marin’s book to bring peace and grace to people; an intersexed person will be given a wide audience and will be listened to, just as Andrew has been.
I agree with you in another post that the Intersexed Society is a good start. It is not enough; they are secular and make no pretense of being Christ Followers. I make no pretense of *not* being.
Karen, I feel this is not only an important post, but a healing post. I certainly feel healing coming to me. Thank you so much for writing it.
AM
July 6, 2009 at 9:53 am
AM–that compliment means a lot considering our ideological differences. Thanks for sharing that. And, I am glad you found it healing.