A few months ago, Jay and Neo left some intriguing comments on this blog. The discussion centered on the theory that gays become homosexual due to not having needs met by a same-sex parent. This is the premise of Reparative Therapy, a counseling model that attempts to “repair” childhood wounds and thus heal same-sex attractions. The primary proponent of this theory is the National Association for Research and Therapy of Homosexuality. (For another perspective see Dr. Throckmorton’s critique). While studies do suggest environmental influences such as family dynamics can play a role in the development of same-sex attraction, it is also true that not everyone fits “the box.” What do you think about Reparative Therapy? If you have same-sex attractions, what do you believe caused them? And, if you experienced a shift in your sexual orientation, how did that come about?
Jay: I’m not a “textbook example” of how to raise a gay man. I have close relationships with my father and brother. I played sports in school and was even captain of two different teams in high school. I’ve always had plenty of male friends, and even now the closest people to me are guys and I generally relate to guys better than girls. I was never abused or anything. I just realized at puberty that it was the guys I saw that I was attracted to, and girls really didn’t cross my mind.
Now, would things have turned out differently if I hadn’t fantasized about men in my younger years and managed my attractions then the way I do now? That’s possible, but then again, maybe not. The fact remains that I was attracted to men before I started giving in to those attractions mentally. The fact also remains that those instances are in the past. I can’t change them. All I can do is manage my own attractions now. Unfortunately, I’m attracted to men, which means I can never act on those attractions. Will I always be? I don’t know. I’m certainly open to being with a woman but I’m also going to learn to be content with what I have, and be faithful either way. I’m not going to seek to date a woman whom I am not attracted to. We’d both deserve better than that.
There are no grand events in my past to work through, no big childhood trauma to overcome. I’ve been blessed in that regard, in that I had a stable, normal, and healthy childhood growing up as a confident guy. I just happened to be attracted to other guys. I’m not “in a box,” because I understand that things change and I’m open to change. I’m just not going to drive myself crazy trying to force things when I’m in the same position as any other Christian man my age. C.S. Lewis once wrote of homosexuality, and said that the homosexual was in no different circumstance than any other person who was unable to marry. I think I’ll take his word for it, and I’ll move on, because there are far better things I can be doing for God’s kingdom than sitting around, trying to sort out why Christian Bale catches my eye instead of Jessica Alba.
Neo: I think one of the major flaws of reparative thinking is the assumption that people’s stories fit into some box (for instance, a distant father and overbearing mother.) As you [Jay] and others point out, this simply isn’t true for many people. With respect to parental dynamics, my story doesn’t fit the reparative mold at all. However, I find that the core of the problem, perhaps aptly called the “source” was a perception that my masculinity was deficient. Many in the reparative moment would say that I needed to become more masculine (for instance, I believe Richard Cohen actually states this), but I think the perception was far more important than the reality.
One of the critical moments in my own healing was when I asked a straight friend what I needed to do to become more masculine, and he admitted he couldn’t think of anything. It was around then that I realized my lack of masculinity was merely a myth that I had mistakenly come to believe. In truth, I was not nearly so different from my brothers as I had come to believe.
I could even see a football captain who developed SSA from this same perception, because I have seen how perception can be removed from reality. Perhaps in some cases the person chose to pursue stereotypically masculine activities in an attempt to prove their masculinity to themselves or others, but it would be highly presumptive to assume this is always or even usually the case. I believe that identity formation is complex and could work very differently for different people, so I really don’t know how much influence perceptions like mine did or did not have for any same-sex attracted person. It’s also true that my SSA certainly cannot be reduced to this feeling of “different,” but rather is much more complicated than that, and the same would almost certainly be true for others.
For me personally, I found that bad experiences with my male peers early in life were the source of my false perceptions about myself. Thus, I had to deal with them to some degree in order to heal. For someone without such an obvious explanation, I see no point in agonizing over it. I wouldn’t even say this was necessarily the most important part of healing.
I think that trying to become more stereotypically masculine might actually be helpful for some people, because the placebo effect might enable them to see their own masculinity in ways they hadn’t been able to. However, this approach could easily backfire if a person decides that he really doesn’t like football or does like his artwork, and thus affirms a false belief in a lack of masculinity. As much as our culture associates things like sports with masculinity, they will never be the true heart of masculinity, and all people should realize that masculinity is expressed differently for different people.
For me what ultimately helped was affirmation from my peers, in both implicit and explicit ways. This kind of affirmation has always been most meaningful when it comes from someone who knows about my struggle. I see this kind of affirmation in what you [Jay] describe of your (non-romantic, of course) relationships with other guys. It sounds like you have several close, meaningful friendships, which is where this sort of thing happens. In my case the most extreme example (although I certainly would never use this prescriptively for anyone else who struggles with SSA, due to the obvious risks!) is that when people who know about my struggle are willing to use community showers with me, they are implicitly affirming that they view me as just another guy despite my struggle, which makes it much easier for me to see myself that way. In addition to this affirmation, doing some thinking and reflective writing has helped me to internalize what I’ve learned about myself.
I would like to ask mostly out of curiosity, how do you see yourself and your own masculinity? Do you see yourself mostly as just another guy, or does being gay mean that you are different from and in some sense less masculine than your straight friends? How do you not just think, but feel at a gut level? Don’t answer anything I ask if you find it to be intrusive, as I really more just want to understand a different perspective than to prescribe a course of action.
However, I do think that working on identity issues can be helpful for people whether or not it ever leads to any change in sexual feelings. This kind of work helped me to overcome feelings of shame and inferiority, and to see myself more the way God does.
I, like many others, have found that when I focus too much on the sexual attraction aspect of healing, healing in general doesn’t happen. If I define “true masculinity” as a lack of same-sex attractions, I will never achieve it. However, by refusing to define myself by my sexuality but still being honest about it with Christian brothers, I have found the solid identity and peace I had long hoped for.
So in summary, the healing plan that worked for me was to work on healing the identity, relationship, and other issues in my life while actually trying to avoid focusing on sexuality itself. (I talked more about the relationship than identity issues when I posted on your [Jay’s] blog last time, so I have focused on identity issues here.) I did find some change in my SSA feelings from doing this, but those benefits are quite a bit less significant to me than the other ways in which I was healed.
16 Comments
March 18, 2009 at 12:21 pm
I think, for some, reparative therapy can work to heal some old wounds. That’s if you have some wounds that need healing. But I’m not so sure how much reparative therapy can heal a person from having same-sex attractions, just that if you do have some hurts from childhood, some of the methods can be healing. I know one particular group that actually teaches its members how to play football or other sports. They do this because some of the men tried when they were little, didn’t succeed, were put down or made fun of, and so they gave up hurt in their humiliation thinking they could never do something other men could. In our society, sports tend to a be a big thing for guys. So, if a person fails at sports, some of their confidence in their masculinity may be shattered somewhat. So, to learn a sport free of insults or rejections can actually help to heal that wound. Especially if they end up learning it well and realize that all they really needed in the first place was better training–it wasn’t that they were somehow different. All this therefore can make a man a little more confident about his masculinity.
In my own life, I’ve seen some of how repartive therapy has helped, and, even at times, lowered or lessened my attractions to other men. I keep thinking of that saying opposites attract. For some men who feel really different from other men, they may see those other men as their opposites moreso than women. To realize you’re not that different afterall, can perhaps reverse this. But I sort of doubt for most guys it could ever completely change attractions. It hasn’t for me.
As for a cause of homosexuality, I tend to believe it is mostly due to self-perceptions and environmental circumstances during childhood, perhaps mixed in with a person’s personality traits or dispositions. I don’t rule out the possibility of genetics here, but I sort of doubt that’s a cause all alone. I’ve read too many studies that seem to debunk the logic of this–particularly those done on identical twins where one turned out gay and the other straight. If they both share the same genetic make-up, this sort of throws genetics into doubt. It would only be their environment and/or self-perceptions of events that would be the difference here.
March 20, 2009 at 5:27 am
Karen – Glad you are dealing with this and thanks for the link.
Here is a situation which I wonder if either of the two people (or anyone) could comment about. I have talked to SSA men who say they felt like other boys until they became aware of SSA and then they felt diminished in their masculinity. In other words, the SSA came first.
Brandon – Re: Identical twin studies. The genetic contribution to homosexuality in the most recent studies are about 30-35%% with non-shared environmental factors being the rest. Shared family environment appear to play no or neglible role. Also, lest one think that the alternative to genetics is home environment when identical twins are discordant for homosexuality, recall these are twins reared together. They had the same home and the same genes. So shared environment probably isn’t a massive influence. What may have been different via different chorion environments during fetal development was exposure to testosterone and the twins have different social worlds outside the home as well.
March 20, 2009 at 1:45 pm
Brandon,
Thanks for sharing your thoughts. I appreciate your perspective regarding how some groups do sports etc to feel more connected to a “man’s world.” These kinds of activities are often mocked by gay activists. But, I can see how those who felt awkward with such things when they were young would appreciate the opportunity to try sports etc as an adult without having to worry about ridicule. The freedom to try it out again.
I also appreciate your perspective on reparative therapy. Not everyone benefits from it, but some people do. We are all different. That is why I have concerns about any one group being too dogmatic one way or the other regarding a particular approach to addressing SSA.
Warren-- that’s interesting about the SSA coming first for some. It seems more common in those I know that the gender-nonconformity was there first, and so feelings of difference. And the SSA later. That was certainly the case for me. Also, I think gender-nonconformity becomes even more noticeable at puberty. That is, its usually okay for an 8 year old girl to climb trees. But, if she is 14 and doing that, she might be chided for being unladylike. Similarly a young boy can get away with being more affectionate/sensitive (because he is just a child), but once he is a teen–that just isn’t manly. Its interesting that all that would be happening around the time sexual attractions develop too. Gender non-conformity often has innate factors, and it seems common among those in the gay community. That seems to be some sort of factor. And can certainly make one feel different than peers.
About the twin study–in regards to environment–how can it be said that environment has no effect simply because one person responds one way and the other a different way? For example, one girl who is abandoned by her father might become very promiscuous in an attempt to get male love. While her sister could respond with anger toward men and reject men entirely. The environment was the same, but they each respond to the hurt differently.
March 21, 2009 at 2:48 pm
I was introduced to Moberly’s “ground breaking” work twenty years ago. In the years that have followed, I have met many gay men and women — many Christian — none of whom have been “repaired”.
When is this worn out, tired theory going to be given a rest and the proper burial that it needs?
But more importantly, if celibacy — even life long — is not *that* big of a deal for Christians — of any ilk, who cares what causes a homosexual orientation? Isn’t it really a moot point?
And yet it keeps cropping up? Why? Why keep resurrecting this crippled theory when it produces so little for so little? Unless…we really *do* think that a homosexual orientation *is* a sin?
Could that be it — the real reason?
March 21, 2009 at 5:49 pm
I think that the problem with many organizations focused on reaching out to people that struggle with same sex attraction is that there is too much emphasis on change. I think the focus needs to be reaching people for Christ and letting Him do the rest. If you focus on change too much you just get disappointed if you don’t see the change you want. As far as I’m concerned you can live a happy content life just working for God, there are plenty of heterosexual people doing the same thing. I also think that us same sex attracted people tend to think about it too much. It’s not who we are.
March 22, 2009 at 2:18 pm
Thinking about the 14 year old girls climbing trees and how off kilter that would be — how society frowns on such a thing -
Those 14 year old girls usually end up on softball teams. Perhaps not fully accepted, but nonetheless more stomachable than the tree climbing.
It is interesting how many lesbians I have spoken to who have met one another on sports teams (as opposed to solo or individual sports). Birds of a feather…
As an aside, I, too, was naturally good at sports — but fearing that such activity would somehow *make* me gay, I avoided them. Somehow I intuitively understood my differentness and tried to fix it (before Moberly’s theory came on the scene).
To no avail: all the beautiful dresses I wore and make-up I applied did not cause me to desire sex with a man.
As an aside: I want to add that Dr. Elizabeth Moberly was the creator or initiator of “Reparative Therapy” NOT Dr. Joseph Nicolosi. I have already made my point clear as to how I feel about its efficaciousness; nonetheless, I do believe credit should be given where it is due. It is hers.
Several years ago I spoke with a long term ex-gay minister in New York who told me that Dr. Moberly is furious about Dr. Nicolosi plagiarizing her material. She is baffled why the ex-gay community (and Christian church by default) has not stood up for her in the U.S., affording her *proper* credit.
I see Dr. T. is here: it would be interesting and enlightening to hear his results after decades of therapy with gay men and women, utilizing this theory.
March 22, 2009 at 5:59 pm
AM – Why do you say I utilize reparative therapy? I don’t and have written specifically that I am not a reparative therapist.
March 22, 2009 at 6:03 pm
Karen – I suppose that might seem like an environmental circumstance but it seems to represent an idiosyncratic response to the same type of circumstance. We could not really say that father abandonment caused anything but rather set up an circumstance requiring an adaptive response. That response will derive from a collection of factors including past experiences, and innate temperament. We cannot say then that father absence caused either response in the sense that A causes B.
March 22, 2009 at 8:11 pm
Since it was asked, I will say that for me, the feeling different did precede the SSA feelings, much as Karen describes. However, the initial SSA probably did worsen the feelings of being “different” and made it more difficult to overcome these feelings. However, I now feel much less different, but still have some SSA.
March 23, 2009 at 5:36 pm
Thanks so much for writing this. The web is aflood with people who follow the NARTH model–which I think is valid in its own right.
But why when we are learning so much must we make such an elementary mistake? (i.e. crowding out other stories).
This is going to backfire on the movement and then they are going to have to take a long, drawn-out time to learn a simple lesson: not everybody is the same.
Why not learn it now and save ourselves the ridicule, embarassment and confusion.
Anyways, I too do not follow this narrative. I had an intact home and no specific hunger for parents–although I was less athletic than my peers out of sheer laziness.
I was not clumsy or overweight–just a very able-bodied lean kid disinterested in sports.
I had my moments where I felt less masculine than other guys but largely this was after puberty.
March 23, 2009 at 5:40 pm
Warren Throckmorton
March 20, 2009 at 5:27 am
Karen – Glad you are dealing with this and thanks for the link.
Here is a situation which I wonder if either of the two people (or anyone) could comment about. I have talked to SSA men who say they felt like other boys until they became aware of SSA and then they felt diminished in their masculinity. In other words, the SSA came first.
———————————
This is largely true for me.
I had no specific angst about masculinity issues until it became a concern that I was going to be lumped in with “those sissies” in school if anyone were to find out.
How could I be “like them”?
And that is when the differences I never really studied before began to appear starker.
March 24, 2009 at 7:51 am
Sarah– I completely agree with you.
AM–You are right that simply making changes outwardly is not going to automatically change the inside. I used to be uncomfortable with my femininity (it was a dirty word for me), but coming to be comfortable with myself did not result from dressing up and wearing make-up. Rather, it was an inward process, that did result in some mild, outward changes too eventually.
Warren–I guess it seems a bit like splitting hairs. I see what you are saying. But on a practical level how is “a circumstance requiring an adaptive response” really that difference from the practical manifestation of cause? If I do something as a reaction/adaptation is that not a form of cause? Even if its not a cause in the sense that 100% of people will have the same response? Plus, I think its different for certain people. Normally I think things stem from nature and nurture. But, I have also seen those who got into homosexuality for primarily environmental reasons. For example, I know a gal who was straight, but couldn’t find a suitable male mate. So, she decided to experiment with women. There was no biological predisposition. Her homosexuality came purely from experimentation, and reinforcement of that through continued involvement over a period of time.
Trinidad–I am glad you have joined the conversation. Its could to hear your perspective. I would enjoy hearing a bit more about your experience and process if you are open to sharing.
April 5, 2009 at 12:51 pm
If SSA is a neurosis (a subconscious choice to cover an emotional wound) than that means that you can unchoose that choice. But most men can’t.
Forgive me if I don’t get this exactly right, but Dr. Joseph Nicolosi said that his clients at NARTH are divided into thirds. One third of his clients are capable of marrying, but often still struggle with same sex attraction. Another third stop their sexual addictive patterns, but have to live in celibacy, and the other third fail. Forgive me, but that sounds like a nearly 100% rate of failure.
Lets just face it. This is a political issue, a religious issue, and for many, a devastating personal issue – and we need a scapegoat – whether it be bad fathers or a gene. We need to understand why we have these struggles, because understanding why would make life a whole lot easier.
I’ve learned not to hate myself. I’m believe in self control, and I believe sexual activity outside of marriage is wrong. But why should I hate myself because of something I never chose? Why should I try to change myself, or make myself more presentable, because of something I never had a say in? Now, I’ve never felt more normal, more masculine, and more whole in my life, that I have accepted that God loves me completely.
I think the ex-gay world are full of people desperately wanting answers. I know, because I was one of them.
When we just need to accept Christ’s grace, and rest in the mystery of what we understand and do not understand. I believe that is the kind of trust God requires of us.
Peace,
Ian Bradford
April 5, 2009 at 1:07 pm
Ian – Well put. I think you have it sussed out well.
Karen – On an individual level, people can reconstruct their histories in many ways that support SSA as an outcome. They may indeed be correct; however, we probably can think of someone who, as Ian notes, is desperate and constructs a narrative that is not plausible (e.g., I heard a woman say at a conference that she was SSA because her mom had her C-Section).
April 5, 2009 at 1:34 pm
Here are a few thoughts.
The ex-gay movement is made by sex-addicts for sex-addicts.
There is a vast wealth of knowledge, literature and history about homosexuality and relationships between men, from Shakespeare’s Sonnets and Plato’s Symposium to W.H. Auden. There have been many thinkers who have commented on the topic for thousand of years.
And then along comes something called “gay” that’s been around for only forty years. It is a very confining worldview, of what love is and sexuality is. And all of us, whether we know it or not, are functioning within that worldview.
And then there is an even SMALLER offshoot of “gay” and that is ex-gay. Ex-gay is just the negative of an already faulty equation. It is stifling beyond measure – a tiny universe. And if you do not fit their formula – that of sex-addict, or the behavior patterns that apply to sex-addicts – then you suffocate. As I did.
I believe the attraction is good. Why? because Michelangelo had a deep attraction to men, celebrated their beauty, and replicated it in art that has lasted for centuries. I believe the attraction is good because Shakespeare passionately loved the fair youth in his sonnets – it was never sexual, but it was SENSUOUS – meaning involving the senses. It was passionate, and committed.
But we, who live in the age of gay, have no understanding of that kind of love. I believe there is a genuine attraction between men that is sensuous but not necessarily sexual. It is good, but can be easily perverted, and sometimes, men are just wired to have deeper sensuous and emotional intimacy with men than with women. For instance, when Jonathan died, King David, after a long and intimate love with him, said that Jonathan’s love was sweeter than the love of women. In subtext, that means Jonathan’s love was sweeter than even that of his wife, Abigail.
It makes sense to me.
I’m just saying this to say you have to get outside of the current paradigms to truly understand something as ancient and deep as homosexuality.
I could say more, but I won’t.
Ian.
April 13, 2009 at 8:24 am
Hi Ian,
I am glad you shared your thoughts here. I hope you will continue to engage on this blog. You wrote: “I’ve learned not to hate myself. I’m believe in self control, and I believe sexual activity outside of marriage is wrong. But why should I hate myself because of something I never chose?”
I agree that it can be very freeing to just accept reality for what it is and not beat ourselves over it or fixate on trying to change something that might not be changeable. I also came to a similar place as you on that.
As far as the ex-gay movement being made by sex-addicts for sex-addicts, I would not agree with that. Though there may be a lot of men who fit that profile. But most of the women I know who went through ex-gay programs were not sex addicts. And I was never a sex addict. Nor did my support group spend a lot of time talking about sexual addiction. Our group was more like a discipleship bible study. The ex-gay movement is rather diverse and so it really depends on what kind of group a person ends up in. Though it does seem that a lot of individuals who end up in ex-gay programs have a higher rate of problems. Many individuals end up growing quite a bit as result of being in an ex-gay program–that is working through any addiction issues etc even if their SSA doesn’t change. But, every program is different. I valued the support group I was in because it was the first place I could be honest and open. I didn’t have a bad experience in my group like some do.
I agree with you that passionate committed relationships between men is good. Though, as you pointed out there is nothing sexual about it. For example, I think of the Lord of Rings friendship between Frodo and Sam. Very committed and passionate. But not homosexual at all. In America everything has been sexualized. If you try to walk down the street holding someone’s hand, immediately it is considered sexual. Even though in other countries men are free to express this non-sexual affection. Its because we have stigmatized normal healthy affection that people have to engage in sex just to be held. Its a tragedy.
Warren–I agree that there can be some odd explanations for the etiology of SSA when people are trying to fit into a preconceived box. Though, I know many people who are affected by environmental factors–whether family of origin or otherwise. I don’t think you deny that as I have seen you acknowledge that to be the case for certain individuals.
I don’t think its helpful to try to look for an overarching singular cause because the variables are different for different people. If someone does have environmental factors, it may very well be helpful to address those factors to minimize or eliminatee SSA. The problem is when we try to force everything into that environmental box in a desperate attempt to offer everyone healing–when that might not be possible. I am concerned about either side being adamant about environmental causes only or biological causes only. We have to evaluate each person on a case by case basis.