In my previous post, I reflected on last week’s Exodus Conference. In this post, I recount my experience at the Ex-Gay Survivor Conference which took place over the weekend.
Its 4:30 on a sunny Friday afternoon when I pull out of the Concordia University parking lot (where I have been attending the Exodus Conference) to venture out into the ex-ex gay world. My first stop is a Chinese restaurant, the Crystal Jade, to meet up with Beyond Ex-Gay founders, Peterson Toscano and Christine Bakke. The pair published an open invitation to Exodus leaders to engage in dialogue. While no Exodus staff or board members are able to attend, three of us at the Exodus conference have taken advantage of the invitation—Scott Kingry, director of Where Grace Abounds, Sonia Balcer, director of Safe Passage, and myself (not on staff with an Exodus affiliate, but involved in ex-gay related ministry).
Peterson and Christine bring along two additional dinner guests, Vince Cervantes and Vince Pancucci. The Vinces went public with their relationship at Azusa Pacific University after Equality Ride visited the school last spring. They were expelled in October for breaking the school’s sexual conduct code. As we munch on bok choy and shrimp, Scott, Sonia and I listen to stories and concerns regarding ex-gay ministry. Our goal is not to criticize or argue, but to take the concerns seriously and learn how ex-gay groups can improve their ministries. Valid points are made, and I promise to share their feedback with Exodus director, Alan Chambers. After dinner several of us head over to UC Irvine for the Survivor Conference kick-off to watch Peterson perform his one-man show, “Doin’ Time in the Homo No Mo Halfway House” (for a review of the show by a fellow blogger click here).
The next morning when I return to the Survivor Conference, I scan the crowd. There appear to be about 130 people present. Jeff Lutes, Executive Director of Soulforce, gives a warm welcome. He comments on the Exodus conference stating that despite differences we are all connected as brothers and sisters in the human race. He is careful not to disparage Exodus, but makes it clear that the purpose of the Survivor Conference is to “shed light on the falsehood that we are broken and disordered.” Jeff is genuine in his compassion. He believes ex-gay ministry is harmful and wants to spare others the pain.
Following the opening remarks, we all gather outside for a “chalk-talk.” The exercise, conducted in silence, allows participants to write their feelings regarding the ex-gay experience on a large swath of paper. One phrase, written in large caps, catches my eye and pierces straight to the heart. It reads: “I FAILED GOD.” Another comment ponders, “I don’t understand why Exodus people say they have changed but still have all their gay feelings.” Still another writes of the value of the spiritual disciplines he learned while in an ex-gay ministry. I walk up to the paper and write my own comment about ex-gay ministry: “First safe place to open up and come out of denial.” The exercise moves me more than I expected. The comments people have written are raw. Others feel the emotion too and some begin to cry.
After debriefing the “chalk-talk” experience, we are sent off to our first workshop. I decide to attend, “What the Bible Says and Doesn’t Say About Homosexuality” presented by Rev. Nancy Wilson and Rev. Dr. Mel White. Mel White is a passionate and articulate man who makes it clear from the beginning of the workshop that he has absolutely no desire whatsoever to discuss the biblical passages on homosexuality. Over the years he has suffered a barrage of debates on the issue and he is thoroughly burnt out. He refuses to engage in the discussion any longer. Instead, he passes out a booklet he has written on the subject and tells us to read it. Then, he encourages us to refrain from discussing the Bible with conservative Christians because fundamentalists have no interest in sincere dialogue. Mel also encourages us not to engage in the debate for another reason. By having the conversation, we expose ourselves over and over again to the “lie” that homosexuality is wrong, and when heard repeatedly, “deep down inside you will wonder if they are right.”
Mel passes the biblical discussion on to Nancy Wilson. She focuses her presentation on the use of the word “eunuch” in Scripture. She concludes that “eunuch” refers to a gay person. Even the magi who brought gifts to Jesus were gay, she says. At this a young man in the audience raises his hand and comments, “One of the criticisms of pro-gay theology is that we see gay in every passage [of the Bible]. The magi as gay seems like a stretch.” Nancy replies that the magi were gay because, as court officials, they were eunuchs. However, she goes on to admit she sometimes overstates her case. For example, she cannot say one way or another whether Ruth and Naomi ever had a sexual relationship. However, she uses her imagination to see gay people in the Bible. Nancy tells us that since gay people have been ignored in the Bible for 2,000 years, it’s okay to use our imagination to see ourselves in it—even if it means stretching things a bit.
After the workshop I conclude my Survivor Conference experience by having lunch with Laurie, an old Bible college buddy I unexpectedly run into at the conference. I haven’t seen her in 10 years, and I am delighted to catch up on her life. During our senior year of college, we were referred to the same ex-gay ministry, Portland Fellowship, along with another student. We drove the 2 hour round trip in her pick-up truck and, when asked by classmates, referred to our weekly jaunts as a “bible study.” In many ways my lunch with Laurie captures the essence of the Exodus Conference and the Survivor Conference– friends who have chosen different life paths.
I realize I was drawn to the Survivor Conference because I love these people. In some impossible way, I long for camaraderie and unity with ex-ex-gays with whom I have shared so many of the same life struggles and pain. Yet, at the end of the day our roads lead us apart, and I wish it wasn’t so. I leave the Survivor Conference knowing it will be my last ex-ex-gay conference. I feel an ache in my heart—the kind of sadness that comes when breaking up with a lover. Even when irreconcilable differences are clear, and parting is the most honest thing to do, the loss is still felt. I want to take my friend by the hand and walk her down the same life path I am traveling, but I know I can’t.
I drive back to Concordia University and rejoin Exodus for the evening general session. I listen as the 800-strong crowd passionately sings, You are the everlasting God, the everlasting God. You do not faint. You won’t grow weary! And, my heart finds comfort.
After writing the last two posts and reflecting further on the conferences, I realize more needs to be said on the issue of change. While this blog is not meant to focus exclusively on issues of homosexuality, I plan to write one more post in this series on the topic: “Can Gays Change?”

19 Comments
July 3, 2007 at 10:29 pm
“I realize I was drawn to the Survivor Conference because I love these people. In some impossible way, I long for camaraderie and unity with ex-ex-gays with whom I have shared so many of the same life struggles and pain. Yet, at the end of the day our roads lead us apart, and I wish it wasn’t so. I leave the Survivor Conference knowing it will be my last ex-ex-gay conference. I feel an ache in my heart—the kind of sadness that comes when breaking up with a lover. ”
Maybe it’s just the gay person in me, but in those heartfelt words it seemed as if you were saying that the lover [so to speak] who you broke up with was in some way your own self.
Oh… and I am not alluding to narcissism – just to be clear.
July 3, 2007 at 11:48 pm
Hi Karen,
I also made the long commute to PF in the mid-1990s (95-97) from Corvallis. The ex-gay experience left me devastated, but I rebuilt my life after the experience and now accept myself as a gay Christian [if I need a label
].
It is disappointing that the Exodus leadership reneged on their own press release touting their willingness to dialogue with BXG. However, I’m glad you and the other two Exodus conference attendees were willing to meet with and even attend BXG. I hope you are able to share our (ex-exgay’s) experiences with ex-gay ministry leaders and ex-gay leaders are willing to consider the effectiveness and potential harm their ministries can cause.
I’m also glad to hear from your prior post that you are also uncomfortable with Exodus’s increasingly political affiliations and stances. Exodus needs more moderate voices willing to steer the organization back to its core mission.
However, it’s not clear to me from your blog why you’ve determined that the ex-ex-gay conference would be your last. Why shouldn’t ex-gay ministry leaders seek feedback?
July 4, 2007 at 5:45 am
Karen,
My first visit to your blog. I followed your link from Warren Throckmorton’s site. Just wanted to say “well said”. Having read a number of your comments on Warren’s site, I was actually pleased that you were one of ‘the three from Exodus’ who attended. Thanks for a vivid picture of what transpired at the ‘ex-ex-gay conference’; it does sound like it was a time of coming together and healing.
July 4, 2007 at 11:06 am
[...] also attended part of the Exodus Survivor’s conference Friday evening and Saturday morning. Karen shares her thoughts on her blog, Pursuing God. It’s a very lovely and grace-filled [...]
July 4, 2007 at 10:51 pm
Karen,
I was also at the workshop on the Bible and Homosexuality that you attended. I feel that your post misrepresented the conversation. You took isolated comments without providing your readers the full context of the discussion… much like Exodus used the clobber passages in isolation to continually tell us that we are defective, broken, sinful people (in a very polite way, of course). This is exactly what Mel was talking about. There is more to the Bible than the passages that Exodus has used – very successfully – to convince so many of us that we are undeserving, broken, perverts. And we are not going to let Exodus set the agenda on what Bible passages are acceptable for us to draw spiritual nourishment from at our own conference.
Saying your analysis of Nancy Wilson’s scholarship is crude would be a vast understatement. She did not “say” the Magi were gay. She speculated on possibilities presented in mainstream scholarship (that fundamentalism rejects in favour of a transplanted, literalistic interpretation).
What grieves me the most about this post, Karen, is that you took a sacred meeting – addressed to those of us who have been psychologically and spiritually mutilated by Exodus organizations – and critiqued it because it addressed OUR spiritual concerns – not yours.
After reading that post, I get the impression that you are a very sincere person who set out to listen very closely to predetermined bits of information, but I am not sure if you really HEARD the overall essence of what was actually said.
July 5, 2007 at 5:02 am
Thanks Karen for this insight.
One question, was it the workshop’s errant theology or the general contentedness with waywardness (sorry I dont have a better word) that caused you to decide you wouldnt attend this type of conference again?
DL Foster
Gay Christian Movement Watch
July 5, 2007 at 6:39 am
Thank-you for your wonderful post. I get frustrated because it seems like no one is listening. Both sides of the conversation seem to have an agenda and seem to be willing to do anything to maintain their agenda.
We need to realize that we are both trying to help and we are both doing it keeping in mind the love of God. We may not agree on how this help should look, but we cannot question the sincerity of the other.
I hope that this is not the end of the conversation.
July 5, 2007 at 10:04 am
Lynn– No, I don’t feel I broke up with myself.
I have been celibate for 6 years already. So much of my processing in regards to myself came to completion awhile ago. The break-up I am describing is between the two movements, ex-gay and ex-ex gay–and having dear friends caught on separate sides. The challenge of that.
Norm–I’m sure I must have met you at PF at some point. Good to hear from you. As for the dialogue with Exodus leaders–Alan told me himself that he is very open to dialogue, and I believe he e-mailed Peterson about setting up a different time to do so that works better schedule-wise.
As far as deciding not to go back to another ex-ex gay conference–I didn’t mean that I would stop engaging in the dialogue. I am always open to dialoguing and hearing people’s stories. I just think that its not the most appropriate thing for me to attend such gatherings because I feel like I am “crashing the party.” I have to be honest about myself and where I am at in my conversations with people, and I don’t think organizers of ex-ex gay conferences would feel comfortable with me talking about my walk away from homosexuality, especially on their turf. It just doesn’t seem respectful.
Eddy–thanks for your comment. Also, you mentioned that you have read a number of my comments on Warren’s site. I have only posted one comment–the most recent one about my blog. So, perhaps there is another Karen you are thinking of?
Ken–I am surprised at your very strong negative comments about my representation of the workshop. I took copious notes throughout, including writing down direct quotes. And, when writing my post I tried to reflect what was said without interjecting my own opinion. I’m sure one could write several pages on what was discussed, but in a nutshell, it seemed to me that what Mel focused on was not engaging in the debate, and what Nancy focused on was her interpretation of the word eunuch.
The fact that an audience member made a point of asking about the magi indicates he was also hearing her say the same thing I heard–that the magi were gay. And, in fact, she responded to him by giving her reason for that theory. In any case, my post was not meant to make any particular point about that–only to recount some of the discussion that occurred.
DL–It wasn’t the theology that made me decide not to attend such a conference again. I kind of touched on this with my answer to Norm. When I went to the Survivor Conference, I didn’t go wondering if I might want to be ex-ex gay. I am already very solid in my own understanding of the biblical interpretation on the issue, and my own decision not to pursue homosexuality. So, I wasn’t in a place of questioning. The reason I attended is because I think its important to listen to those we disagree with, and treat those we disagree with, with respect. Too often judgements are made about “the other camp” and no one bothers to actually show up and see for themselves what is happening. Rather than relying on distorted or sensationalistic reports about the conference from those who don’t know what they are talking about, I wanted to see it for myself and talk to people myself. Talking with people helps to keep us from demonizing each other in a propagandist way.
Benton– I agree with you, and I hope the conversation continues. I learn the most from those who have different worldviews than I do. It challenges me to be more thoughtful about my own beliefs, etc.
July 5, 2007 at 2:51 pm
Hi Karen,
Thank you for clarifying your comment about ‘not to go back to another ex-ex gay conference’. I suspected you intended your statement to be interpreted differently, but wasn’t sure.
I’m not associated with BXG, but I believe one of their primary missions is dialogue with ex-gay leaders — so I would hope the ex-exgay conference would not be your last. I would hope the Survivors conference becomes an annual or regular event and ex-gay leaders would see it as an opportunity to receive feedback from former ex-gay participants.
Exodus, PF and several ex-gay ministries have been around for more than 25 years. And yet, they never discuss their own analysis, research, or surveys about the effectiveness and helpfulness of their own movement. Yes, I know, ex-gay ministries are supposedly not about turning gays into straights and there is no measureable outcome. However, it would seem that knowing what ministries and programs are helpful or harmful would be of an interest to ex-gay leadership.
July 5, 2007 at 7:38 pm
[...] Burroway over at Box Turtle Bulletin and Mike Airhart over at Ex-Gay Watch react positively to a blog post by Exodus affiliated minister Karen Keen, about her experience attending some of the events at the Ex-Gay Survivor’s Conference. Jim [...]
July 5, 2007 at 8:00 pm
Hi, Karen.
LOL! Thanks for the clarification. It turns out I was confusing you with another Karen, a Karen Booth who blogged for a time over on Warren Throckmorton’s site.
A fortunate mistake though since I got to read your summary of the meeting. Blessings!
July 6, 2007 at 8:44 am
[...] her blog, Pursue God, Keen writes: As we munch on bok choy and shrimp, Scott, Sonia and I listen to stories and concerns [...]
July 7, 2007 at 11:55 am
I want to know more about this ministry.
I am doing ministry in india amoung the transe genders.
samson dasan
July 7, 2007 at 11:04 pm
Samson–I have sent you an e-mail.
July 17, 2007 at 5:12 pm
Hey Karen,
Just wanted to say again how wonderful it was to meet you and share that dinner with you. Thank you for listening so well, and for your questions. I’d love to have dinner with you again sometime.
July 17, 2007 at 8:36 pm
Hey Christine,
I really enjoyed meeting you too and it would be a pleasure to have dinner with you again some time. Until then, take good care, and I am sure I’ll see you around in cyberspace.
July 13, 2008 at 9:12 am
[...] It introduced me to a wide network of people. Through the blogosphere I heard about the Ex-Gay Survivor Conference and the invitation Christine Bakke and Peterson Toscano extended to Exodus affiliates to dialogue over dinner. I took them up on their offer and wrote about it here. [...]
August 15, 2008 at 8:29 am
[...] Ex-Gay Survivor Conference http://pursuegod.wordpress.com/2007/07/03/survivor-conference/ [...]
April 27, 2009 at 5:00 pm
[...] Engaged in dialogue with Beyond Ex-Gay founders, Christine Bakke and Peterson Toscano, as well as attended the Ex-Gay Survivor Conference [...]